Nothing divides global opinions like Israel. This tiny nation in the Middle East is surrounded by hostile countries in a volatile part of the world, where geopolitical games involving great powers are always afoot.

However, the story of Israel – how Jews from all over the world came together to form the nation, and then shaped it into a developed, technologically advanced country against daunting odds – needs to be studied and examined, especially by Hindus who have suffered horrific genocides & persecution for the last millennia and who are still struggling for a state where they can live with dignity & safety.

HinduPost met up with Kobbi Shoshani, Consul General of Israel to Midwest India, Mumbai, to understand Israel, its history, its present, and what lessons it offers the world.

Israel has a very unique identity and national spirit. All Israelis, the Jewish community, share this spirit. What is the reason behind that, and how do you ensure future generations retain this civilizational memory of what the community has endured, like the Holocaust and other persecutions?

It’s a combination of three things: history, the Bible, and most importantly, necessity.

Like India (Bharat), we are an ancient people. We bring a lot of customs, traditions, stories, books, wisdom, and holidays from our history. To protect this tradition, we must act as a collective, which is extremely important to us. This collective spirit also stems from our family values and religion.

Throughout history, we suffered thousands of years of persecution, not just the Holocaust. This began with the First Temple era, then the Romans, Greeks, and Iranians. Everyone wanted a part of the Middle East, especially the Israeli Kingdom. The first Israeli Kingdom began over 4,000 years ago, built by King David, King Solomon, and King Saul.

Then the Romans and Greeks came, and our Temple was destroyed twice. Our history teaches us that we constantly have to survive. Around 2,000 years back, we were scattered worldwide by the Romans (after the Second Temple was destroyed) – to Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and even Asia. That’s why you can see Jewish communities in Bharat. For 2,000 years, we continued our traditions, holidays, customs, and even the Hebrew language – although it was a dying language with very few speakers – despite being separated & split.

Regarding the Temple Mount, we don’t have a temple there now. Religious people wish to build the Third Temple after the second one collapsed. It’s wishful thinking, but that place, the Temple Mount, is extremely important to all religions, and we wish to live peacefully. The Wailing Wall surrounded the Temple, it was a huge building. According to Jewish tradition, you cannot go to the core of this holy place, only close to it. It’s where Abraham, our first prophet and the first Jewish person, tried to sacrifice his son for God. The 12 tribes of Israel descend from Abraham.

After 2,000 years, we returned to Israel, our homeland and eternal capital, Jerusalem, which was the capital of the Jewish people from the Kingdom of David. Families came from Iran, Iraq Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Poland, Russia, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Italy, France, and Spain among others. After World War I, many fled to the United States, forming a large Jewish community there.

Though small numbers returned to Israel over the years, a significant return started in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. They revived the language and built the Jewish state. The concept of a “Jewish state” might sound strange in Bharat because there isn’t a “Hindu state,” but in Israel, it’s normal. We define ourselves as a Jewish state because it is the homeland for all Jews worldwide, who were expelled and persecuted.

Bharat was one of the only places where Jews were not persecuted or felt prejudice. However, the heart of the Jewish people always longed to be in our homeland. After the UN-approved Partition Plan and the establishment of our state in 1948, waves of Jews came from all over the world, including Europe and Bharat.

But the movement for a Jewish State started much earlier, didn’t it? Wasn’t there a Jewish Congress in the late 19th century where it started? And is that what Zionism represents?

The movement for the Jewish state, Zionism, started with a small movement in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Zionism means to inspire oneself in Zion, which is Israel – its a geographical term. It’s the movement for Jewish people to live in Israel. While some believe all Jews must live in Israel, you can be a strong Zionist without living there, by supporting the movement. The core idea of Zionism is that Jews need to rebuild the Jewish state.

The idea of Zionism originated in 1897 in Basel, Europe, founded by Theodore Herzl, an Austrian Jewish lawyer and secular individual. Before Herzl, the idea was to be Jewish internally and a citizen of your country externally. Religious groups used to say that Jews could only return to Israel after the (final) redemption. However, there was widespread violence against Jewish people in Europe even before the second World War, especially in Russia, and they felt like second-class citizens and foreigners despite keeping their Judaism (hidden) internally.

It’s similar to how Hindus today live in Pakistan or Bangladesh.

More or less. In 1897, Herzl built up the idea of Zionism and called for Jews to return to their historical homeland. Small numbers from Russia and Poland began to make settlements in Israel, buying land from the Ottoman Empire to build the state.

Then came the Holocaust. Many Jews couldn’t leave Europe before the war. It was a traumatic time where one-third of the Jewish population was eliminated through gas chambers and other means. Even today, it’s impossible to understand the Israeli mindset without understanding the Holocaust.

What is the population of Israel and Jews worldwide today?

Israel’s population is 10 million, out of which 8 million i.e. 80% are Jews. There are also Muslims and Christians, and they too are full citizens. The definition of a Jewish state is that every Jew, wherever they may live in the world, if they want to come to Israel, they can and they will get Israeli citizenship. This right of return is only for Jewish people, otherwise all citizens are equal.

We built Israel as a shelter for all Jews all over the world. The Holocaust happened during the second World War because Jewish people didn’t have a homeland. The idea was to build such a shelter for the Jewish people that never again, such a Holocaust will never happen again. You will hear this a lot in Israel: ‘Never Again’

How do you keep that memory (of the Holocaust & other persecution) alive within your families and as a state? Hindus lack this – even recent incidents of persecution are forgotten by Hindu masses.

We speak about it, we keep the memory of the Holocaust alive through education and museums. Everybody in Israel knows & understands what the Holocaust was. While it’s a challenge to pass this on to the younger generations as time passes, but unfortunately the events of October 7th brought this memory back. Our shelter was not enough for some people, leading to a traumatic historical moment for us. The 1,200 casualties on October 7th, in a country of 9-10 million people (8 million Jews), meant that everyone knew someone affected. This historical burden came crashing down on Israel, showing a failure in the Jewish state’s definition as a shelter that didn’t provide enough protection on that day to citizens. This triggered a reaction.

Now, Palestinians in Gaza are suffering and paying a full price. The lesson has been sent: “Don’t mess with us,” because we must protect our shelter. The mutual commitment between Jews is paramount. This combination of historical, religious, and commitment factors is why most Israelis, mainly Jewish people but also others, undergo compulsory military service. My children served in the army. Women serve two years, and men three, followed by reserve duty. This is part of the commitment to protect our shelter because we’ve been surrounded by enemies since our independence.

One day after our independence, we fought a war against seven Arab states including Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen, and we won. In our War of Independence, 6,000 people were killed out of a population of 600,000 – 1% of the population. My uncle was killed in that war, and I am named after him. We built a country against enemies who did not accept the UN-approved Partition Plan, unlike the subcontinent where Partition was accepted by both parties. Israel accepted the partition plan but the Arab states did not, and that is where everything (the conflict) starts. The vote in UN (United Nations) was 33 for and 13 against forming a Jewish and Arab state.

The idea (of Israel) was to build a historical, emotional, and cultural shelter. When I walk in old Jerusalem, my birthplace and the capital of the Kingdom of David, I feel connected to my ancestors, history, culture and philosophy…King Solomon, King David, the buildings, the synagogues – I am connected to the place.

That is what some in the West don’t get, about what Ayodhya or Kashi means for us Hindus.

Don’t care what the West thinks about you. You were here before. Bharat brought astronomy and mathematics to the world. See Jantar Mantar, Ayurveda, your books of knowledge. The Hindu perception was suppressed by invasions & superpowers. But the Jewish people have kept their religion and concept of life very tight, which is our strength, despite there being a lot of variety among Jews. I am secular and don’t keep all the (religious) rules, but I still feel very Jewish. I think most Hindu people in Bharat feel connected to their gods, temples, spirituality, customs, and traditions, and I like it, we understand that. In the West, they look at it in a different way.

What proportion are Orthodox Jews of the total Jewish population? Are the people who live in kibbutz Orthodox Jews?

Its the opposite. Kibbutz members are generally secular. Orthodox Jews live in holy places and are easily identifiable by their appearance. Jewish society has various sections: Orthodox, ultra-Orthodox, religious, and secular. Some secular Jews respect tradition and go to synagogue on Saturdays but use cars or electricity, which Orthodox Jews would not. Saturdays in Jewish communities are very quiet, with less cars and public transportation on roads, fostering family connection.

I think it helps for some people to be orthodox/conservative for the overall population to be closer to their identity. In that sense, there is some overlap with the Hindutva position.

If I compare Hindutva to the Jewish perception, its like having different translations/interpretations of the Bible and I may believe in some part of the Bible, which is ok in my point of view. You have to remember that you are Hindu. And you have to respect the general idea of Hinduism (Hindu Dharma).

In Jewish tradition, arguing about every sentence while learning the Bible in the synagogue is encouraged because discussion leads to learning. This argumentative nature, while sometimes negative with kids arguing with parents, fosters innovation and new methods. While there is a structured hierarchy in India, in Israel it is less.

Is going to the synagogue mandatory for all Jewish families? Do all children learn Jewish scriptures like Torah?

While going to the synagogue isn’t mandatory for all, it’s customary for life events like becoming an adult (at age 13, when Jewish boys have the Bar Mitzvah coming-of-age ritual) or getting married. Even secular Jews learn specific chapters of the Bible in school. The Torah is the most significant part of the Bible, covering creation, the exodus from Egypt, food restrictions, and the Ten Commandments. We are taught to remember how we were once enslaved and thus to act mercifully towards others. There are ongoing discussions and interpretations within Jewish tradition about these concepts.

What is your memory about the 26/11 attacks on Mumbai? The Chabad House was also attacked.

I was in Israel at that time. I remember opening the television and understanding that something significant happened in Mumbai during the 26/11 attacks. A few days later, I was sent by the Minister of Foreign Affairs to help the consulate during those traumatic days. I was familiar with Bharat, having been here in 1992, and I like Bharat very much, so when I was asked to go & help after 26/11, I agreed.

The masterminds of the 26/11 attack in Pakistan have still not been convicted and punished. What is your take on that?

I cannot advise the Indian government, as every country has its own interests. Our concept is to pursue those who kill us, not for revenge, but for prevention. The message that those who harm Jews will pay the price is well understood by our enemies.

What methods does Israel use to combat Islamist terrorism? Terrorists are brainwashed & radicalized through a network of clerics – how do you tackle that?

Israel doesn’t want war. We want to live normally, enjoying life and good Mediterranean food, but always ensuring we are not “part of the menu.” We are like a villa in a jungle, a highly developed country, well organized with modern infrastructure, good quality of life, and high happiness levels (ranked fifth in the world).

How does Israel excel in science and technology? What is your education system like, and I have heard you use Hebrew language everywhere – from education to professional life?

Israel’s achievements in science and technology stem from two main factors: culture of debate & argument, and necessity. The Jewish concept of arguing about everything, even secular matters, promotes understanding and innovation – its generates lot of energy and solutions. The second thing is necessity. For example, a lack of water for agriculture necessitates finding efficient ways to save and utilize it.

Education is compulsory and almost free until the 12th grade, ensuring high-quality schooling is available to all. University is not free, but education until 12th grade is a right and an obligation.

Israel has holy places important for all 3 Abrahamic religions, and Christians also visit a lot. There have been some cases of evangelical Christians trying to convert others (Jews). In Bharat also we see that a lot – evangelical Christians trying to convert others. How do you view that?

In Israel, if someone expresses a desire to convert to Judaism, the initial response by a Rabbi (Jewish religious leader) is often negative, encouraging them not to. Unlike Islam and Christianity, Jewish people are against converting others. If someone insists and truly feels Jewish, they might be accepted after persistent effort, but it comes with significant responsibilities. The basic principle is that we don’t want other people to be Jewish; we want to keep Judaism for ourselves. Judaism doesn’t believe in universal conversion.

Hinduism is very nice because it accepts everyone, but the Jewish way is a bit different – its not that we don’t accept others, but we want to keep ourselves for ourselves, if you understand what I mean. We don’t want to share or spread the idea (of Judaism).

Everyone needs that one space where they are comfortable amongst their own people.

I am against trying to convince others to convert, as I don’t think it’s logical, smart, or good. If someone wants to be Jewish or Christian, that’s fine, but there’s no need to convince others. I enjoy Christmas, Diwali, Holi and all holidays. But I won’t try to convince you to be Jewish – its against the Jewish concept. Historically, Islam and Christianity have tried to convert people, where size is important, but for us, size is not important.

What are your favorite places and memories of Bharat?

It’s hard to pick just one favorite place in Bharat because there are so many amazing ones. Ladakh has amazing nature, truly extraordinary and beautiful. Munnar is beautiful. Jaipur and Udaipur touched my heart. Maharashtra has extraordinarily beautiful Shivaji forts, especially after the monsoons. From West Bengal to Kerala, Rajasthan to Gujarat. I haven’t been to Kashmir yet, I am trying to visit. I enjoyed Amritsar and was emotional after visiting the Golden Temple. I like Delhi as well.

I am a Mumbaikar by heart and feel connected to Bharat. I also enjoy your film industry, music – Kishore Kumar is a genius, food, philosophy of relaxation (yoga), and have even started to like cricket.