Pakistani Hindus are one of the worst persecuted minorities in the whole world, and are suffering what experts have termed a slow genocide. Every year, 1000s of Hindus migrate to Bharat and other countries, looking to protect their families, especially young daughters, from Islamist predators who operate with blessings of the Pakistani State and Army.

Most of these Hindus are from disadvantaged communities who would be categorized as SC/ST (Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe) in Bharat. Many come on religious pilgrimage or visitor visas to Bharat, and later apply for long-term visas, settling in states like Rajasthan, Delhi and Gujarat. The advent of the NDA govt in 2014 and the introduction of the CAA law which provides an expedited track to citizenship for these Hindu refugees has come as a great relief for them. Yet, they still face multiple hardships due to corruption at lower and mid levels of the Indian state machinery, and also the apathy of larger Hindu society.

HinduPost recently met with 2 such refugees – both named Shankar – in Karnavati (Ahmedabad), Gujarat to understand the hardships and aspirations of Pakistani Hindu refugees who have resettled in Bharat, primarily escaping religious persecution, forced conversions, and pervasive insecurity in Sindh and other regions of Pakistan. Their stories cover a range of migration periods (from as recent as a few years ago to families who arrived around 2 decades back), diverse backgrounds and communities struggling to rebuild lives afresh in Bharat. Their responses will be prefixed with S1 (Shankar 1) & S2 (Shankar 2)

Can you please start by sharing what drove you to seek refuge in Bharat, and what are the current conditions in Pakistan that you hear from your contacts back there?

S1: See, the fear of forced conversions was there 20 years ago too, but at that time it was at a different level. It was more in the area near Upper Sindh, Ghotki – where Mian Mithoo (cleric of infamous Bharchundi Dargah, a centre of forced conversions) had influence. 20 years ago, it was focused in that area. My father, who worked as a mason, had understood that this Islamic extremism would grow, and we are seeing that play out today. So in 2006, he decided to move from Mirpur Khas, Sindh to Bharat with his entire family – 9 members.

2006b was the time when General Musharaff was in power as the dictator of Pakistan. But even then your father felt that extremism would rise.

S1: Pakistan is an Islamic country, so the State also is not in control there. There is ultimately only one law & order there – Islam.

It is said by many that Gen. Zia Ul Haq radicalized Pakistan – do you know if the situation was better in the 1970s (before Zia’s rule)?

S1: I wasn’t born in the 1970s, but after Zia imposed harsh Islamic laws in 1984, it has been 40 years of that kind of Islamization. You can see its impact – forced conversions happening everywhere, people being persecuted. You can even see its impact in Bangladesh.

So you would have been in your early 20s when you came. Did you personally witness any cases of forced conversion?

S1: Yes, we would read about such cases in newspapers – even daughters of rich & influential Hindus, including govt. officers, would get abducted. A big case had happened with one such Hindu girl from Mithi.

The issue of abduction, forced conversion & marriage of Pakistani Hindu girls first gained wide traction in Bharat with Rinkle Kumari’s case of 2012. But you are saying this was happening earlier too?

S1: Yes, even before Rinkle’s case, many girls have disappeared, but since social media wasn’t around, the news never reached a wider audience. In a few cases, to silence the abducted girl’s family & suppress the matter, the govt would announce allotment of a petrol pump in her name. But outside of a few print media outlets in Pakistan, these cases were never raised by Bharatiya or global media.

Yes, in 2012, the UPA govt was playing cricket with Pakistan, and the plight of Pakistani Hindus was never discussed. What other discrimination did you face?

S1: When we studied, our Muslim friends would constantly ask us to convert, giving dawat (dawah) i.e. ‘invitation’ to Islam. If a cricket match was going on involving Bharat, we used to face jibes about ‘our team’ (questioning their loyalty). You are looked at differently if you are a Hindu. Mocking of Hindu deities is routine. When I worked in Karachi, I had to keep a different name, a Muslim-sounding name. I faced discrimination in the workplace canteen, we had to use a different set of utensils & wash those ourselves. Some of my Muslim colleagues, the non-fundamentalist ones, would sit alongside to eat, but we had to use different utensils.

S2: In Pakistan, there is a nickname ‘Sonari’ for utensils that non-Muslims have to use. Only limited people, the educated & open-minded ones making up around 10% of the population, would not discriminate and would behave properly out of humanity. But they also won’t speak up for our rights, lest they themselves become targets.

S1: Discrimination is written in school textbooks like ‘Mutalia Pakistan’ (Pakistan Studies), where they glorify the history of Islamic invaders and even claim that Pakistan has won all its wars (with Bharat). Hindus are denigrated as greedy, money-lending banias etc – I read this in Class 8, although I hear some of this is now changing.

What difficulties did you face in practicing your religion in Pakistan? How many mandirs are still functional there?

There are some mandirs, but the environment is one of fear. When the events of 1992 unfolded in Bharat (demolition of disputed Babri structure), I was 10 years old and saw gunfire and mandirs being demolished. There are some good mandirs still standing in Sindh, but most in Punjab (province of Pakistan) have been captured and converted to public parks, offices, toilets etc. We feel more mental peace in Bharat, and want our children to enter the mainstream and serve Bharat. But the economic struggle is real and we do feel shelter-less at times.

How did you come to Bharat and what has been your struggle thus far?

S1: My father got a visitor visa when someone we knew agreed to sponsor us, and this is how we arrived in Gujarat. But our struggle continues to this day. When you change your country, the old networks you had no longer exist. Back in 2006, people were reluctant even to rent us a house because they did not want any legal bother. Governments were unfavorable back then (UPA was in power at center, and Gujarat had a BJP govt).

S2: It is my third year in Bharat. We knew that the Islamic fundamentalism which was growing all around us would one day burn us too. I had sisters, aged 14-15 years, and worried for them. I was around 29-30 years old then, and thought it better to migrate now rather than spend my youth building wealth there (and later have to abandon it all). I have a Master’s degree in English and taught in Pakistan for 10 years. We were also worried about the economic prospects of Pakistan. We are a joint family of 27 people and came to Bharat in batches.

Were there any social organizations to help you back then? Have the Pakistani Hindu refugees living here organized themselves in any way?

S1: We didn’t get much help when we came (in 2006). Back then, there were 4-5 refugee families living in this area, today I know of 70-80 Pakistani Hindu refugee families. But we need to organize ourselves better. When we didn’t have citizenship, we didn’t even think along these lines, but now we are looking at forming an organization and would like other Hindu groups to assist us. Unfortunately, we have cases of refugees returning to Pakistan as they were unable to settle and cope in Bharat. We get help from Sangh (RSS) whenever we reach out to them. But we need support of local city-based NGOs as well.

S2: When I arrived here, I got lot of help from earlier refugees like S1. And many who are arriving now, I am their support system. If they need help with paperwork, verification, work – they contact me. We must remember that the newly arrived refugees are mentally scarred & afraid to speak out, so sometimes they are taken advantage of by a local. But we get involved and resolve the matter.

You were mentioning earlier that when new refugees arrive in Bharat, they need ration, housing, financial aid to survive the crucial initial months. Do you think we need a Hindu Fund to rehabilitate those in need?

S1: Yes, there should be a group to look after these things, which is able to support poor families fleeing to Bharat for the first 6-8 months, till the time their lives stabilize. We also need skilling programs or seed money to help people find new employment. Many people are forced to return (to Pakistan) because they are unable to survive this transition period.

Some families even hesitate in asking for help or sharing their issues. For eg., a doctor had arrived recently with his wife and 3 children (2 young daughters & a son) and we all supported him. But he suddenly made up his mind to return. We all tried to convince him to stay, but he still returned. Within a month of his return to Pakistan, his son was kidnapped and he had to cough up PKR 25 lakhs.

Why did he return?

S1: It takes time for everyone to adjust. Bharat is different, its very diverse compared to Pakistan. So it can be a culture shock for some.

S2: Its sometimes more difficult for teens/young adults who have grown up in the midst of an Islamic society, have friends back there and not much idea about Hindu Dharma. They tend to focus more on negatives. We believe they returned because their son could not adjust. After 3-4 months of his return, the doctor messaged me saying “I made a mistake. I want to return (to Bharat)”. I have told him that whenever visa services restart, I will assist him.

So professional counselling of such refugees families is important, to help them process the emotional disruption?

S1: Yes, the entire rehabilitation has to be handled professionally. There are many psychological factors involved too, you are getting uprooted and have to start afresh which can be overwhelming.

S2: Many who arrive are from the labor class or small traders. They need support when they first arrive. If a refugee arrives with 100,000 Pakistani rupees, that is equivalent to just 30,000 in Indian currency. Most arrive here after selling everything, so this instant devaluation of their life savings hits them hard. Others choose not to make distress sales, and ask their relatives to sell their property at a later date – so even they lack enough resources when they arrive.

Lakhs of Hindus from Sindh had migrated to Bharat in 1947, and settled in various cities of Bharat. Today, those Sindhi Hindus are a very prosperous community. Do you get any assistance from them, seeing that you too are from Sindh and share the same language and culture?

S1: We don’t get much support. Unfortunately, Hindus still lack the larger consciousness and look at region or jaati. Many Pakistani Hindus living in Sindh have their roots in Gujarat or Marwar (Rajasthan) – so Sindhi Hindus consider them separate. For eg. my ancestors were from Gujarat, but after having lived for so long in Sindh, we assimilated with Sindhi culture. Yet, differences persist. We hope more Sindhi organizations come forward to help Pakistani Hindu refugees.

Roughly speaking, the upper class Pakistani Hindus are Sindhi, while majority Hindus there are Meghwar, Kohli – communities considered SC/ST (Scheduled Caste/Scheduled Tribe). Technically, I too am from an SC/ST community, but I don’t consider myself one, and have never allowed my children to think in such terms or look for reservation.

Did you face issues in getting official documentation or extending your visa etc? What difference do you see between then and now? And what is your opinion about CAA (Citizenship Amendment Act)?

S1: There is a big change now, things have become much easier. Back then, the LTV (Long Term Visa) had to be renewed every year. The current govt increased the renewal term to 2 years, then 5 years. Then, you were charged Rs 10,000 for citizenship (once the refugee became eligible), today it is only Rs 100. I consider the Modi government very good for people like us. But there are things they can improve.

I got citizenship in 2018 (12 years after coming), before CAA. But I have seen many people benefit from CAA and get citizenships, although sometimes you have to run around to get required documents. Its a very good law, I would request the govt to increase the CAA deadline for entry into Bharat from 31 Dec 2014 to 2018.

S2: My LTV visa has been extended but I was told by the CP (Commissioner of Police) office that I cannot get an Aadhar until Delhi (Home Ministry) issues an approval letter, so we are facing financial difficulties as we can’t open a bank account without Aadhar.

S1: The Aadhar issuance process has been restricted following the spate of fake Aadhar scams, especially those involving illegal Bangladeshi Muslim immigrants. Because of them, Hindu refugees who applied for Aadhar through the legal route are suffering. Many Pakistani Hindus are desperate to come to Bharat, but even getting visa has now become difficult.

S2: Around 2 years back, one could get a visa (for pilgrimage or visit through a sponsor) for Bharat in 3 months. But of late, it has become unpredictable, and people are getting rejected too. One issue is that sometimes the official doing the sponsor verification in Bharat demands bribes. On the Pakistan side, we don’t have to approach the embassy in person, and can submit applications through TCS (TCS Visatronix) visa facilitation service provider.

Note: Since this interview, the NDA govt has extended the CAA deadline for entry into Bharat to 31 Dec, 2024, much to the relief and delight of Pakistani Hindu refugees who arrived after 2014.

What is the scenario post Operation Sindoor?

S1: Since Op Sindoor, visa services for Pakistanis have been suspended.

S2: Around 1500 Pakistani Hindus who had stamped visas and were ready to emigrate, also had their visas cancelled (after Op Sindoor) so they are now stranded in Pakistan. Many more visa applications are pending.

How many Hindus still remain in Pakistan, and how many come each year to Bharat? We have heard from some sources that around 5000 Hindus flee Pakistan each year due to persecution.

S1: Its much more than 5000. At least 10000 flee each year, and that number could easily be higher. Currently, Hindus constitute around 2% of Pakistan, numbering around 60-70 lakhs (before partition, Hindus constituted around 15% of present-day Pakistan)

And most of those remaining Hindus are also desperate to leave?

S2: Just few days back, 3 Hindus girls were abducted within a 10 km radius of the place where I lived earlier (near Tando Allahyar, Sindh). The 3 Hindu sisters and their 1 male cousin who were abducted & brainwashed into converting to Islam by a teacher took place in Shehdadpur, around 100 km from my previous residence.

S1: Islamic extremism is at its peak there and things will only worsen, even though such matters (forced conversions) are being reported and discussed more.

S2: The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP), a non-govt body, visited in the recent case I mentioned, but they too don’t have much influence.

Is there no layer of government in Pakistan – police or judiciary – which comes to aid of persecuted Hindus?

S1: No. Even if a judge rules for an abducted Hindu girl to be returned to her parents, the Jamaat ecosystem will blackmail him. Even judges with security guards are not safe.

S2: Abducted girls are not safe even in the govt shelters (Dar-ul-Aman) they are sometimes sent to – maulvis manage to get access to such girls (to brainwash and coerce them) but no one else, not even parents, can talk to them.

S1: Sometimes, these fundamentalists plan a 4-5 years long operation to target a Hindu girl, after gathering all background information about her family, relatives etc. Then they set their boys after the girl, while she travels to & from school. Over the years, a friendship may form, and then suddenly one day the girl disappears. Then they record her nude video, threaten and torture her.

S2: She is assaulted, threatened that her brother or father will be killed, house set on fire. So the scared 14-15 year old girl does whatever they demand of her.

S1: This all happens in dargahs (shrines for Sufi clerics like the Bharchundi ‘Shareef’ dargah in Ghotki district of Sindh run by notorious Barelvi cleric Abdul Haq aka Mian Mithoo & Pir Ayub Jan Sarhandi dargah in Samaro), Dar-ul-ulooms (religious schools i.e. madrasas). They have an entire network, different Jamaats (Muslim socio-religious groups/congregations), all of it tacitly sponsored and backed by the State, working on this (abduction and forced conversion of Hindus and other minorities).

Note: High-level Pakistani govt officials like Punjab CM Salman Taseer have been gunned down by their own security guards over alleged ‘blasphemy’ due to incitement by groups like the Sufi org Dawat-e-Islami. Not surprisingly, Pakistani judges often pass shocking orders like upholding ‘marriage’ of an abducted minor girl with her Muslim abductor, because ‘she had attained puberty’.

Do you think if this issue is raised more effectively on international forums, it will put pressure on Pakistan to protect its minorities? When powerful nations like USA support the Pakistani Army and State, and IMF gives bailouts & loans, how do you see that? Does it help when the issue of Pakistani Hindu persecution is raised in Bharat?

S2: Yes, it makes a difference, it helps when others raise this issue.

S1: When CAA was passed by Bharat and the Modi govt declared that Bharat is the natural refuge of persecuted Hindus of the subcontinent, that statement was very powerful and it gave hope to Pakistani Hindus that Bharat is their safe harbor. And even within Bharat, I see a big change – when I arrived (in 2006), locals were wary of us Pakistani Hindus and it took time to earn their trust and settle down. Even to get a house on rent, landlords would ask us to get a guarantor…but now things have improved.

Do you feel welcome in Bharat?

S2: Yes, we do…especially after this (Modi) government.

Gujarat is a state where Hindus are both socially well-connected and relatively prosperous. Do you feel integrated here?

S1: People of Gujarat are good and there is economic opportunity here. But we Hindus have not been able to deliver or evolve a support system. We need to make a directed effort to integrate refugees. I think Hindus haven’t managed to do this as they are so diverse (meaning they lack awareness & mobilization over issues such as persecution of Hindus across the subcontinent, including in many parts of Bharat).

In a city like Karnavati (Ahmedabad), one has to live in a rented house – I am paying Rs 5000 for this house. But in Rajasthan, in places like Jaisalmer or Jodhpur, the Hindu refugees live in bastis, in hutment type temporary dwellings. So the difficulties Hindu refugees face in Gujarat are hidden to some extent – their poverty is more visible in Rajasthan.

S2: I initially lived in Rajasthan, and found Hindus there to be more divided. Gujarat offers more opportunities as well.

To sum up, I would say that the key factors on which a refugee needs support when he first arrives is: financial, documentation, emotional, and skill development/empowerment. In my case, me and my extended family are all involved in textiles. I pick up cloth from the market and need to transport it. But I don’t have a license so can’t operate a vehicle. Even after almost 3 years, I don’t have an Aadhar, so I can’t get any other document or bank account. We can’t even get a gas connection, so end up paying much more for gas. If I get Aadhar, 50% of my problems will be solved.

Were you able to get your children admitted to school?

S2: Yes, thankfully I could get my child admitted, but now schools are asking for a lot more documents.

S1: After Op Sindoor, schools are demanding more documents. We have to get an authorization letter from the CP office. Earlier, there was a clerk in the CP office who used to demand bribes for everything, including basic things like registering new refugees – demanding bribe of Rs 400-500 per passport. I wrote an email to higher officials about this, and after 1 month I was summoned to discuss the matter. Finally, that clerk (a Hindu) was removed and his replacement now deals nicely with refugees. So the system does listen and change if you raise your voice. But at thana (police station) level, bribes are still demanded. I have suggested to local Sangh officials that honest, empathetic police & govt officials should be placed in positions that deal with Pak Hindu refugee matters.

S2: Initially, I was scared while dealing with officials. But after guidance & support from S1 and learning how the system works, that fear has vanished. We know our legal rights.

What you are facing is faced by many Bharatiya Hindus too – even in BJP-ruled states like UP, police at lower levels is often apathetic to Hindu suffering, and their attitude changes only when the issue is escalated. The good thing is that Hindu society is slowly waking up

S1: Very true. But we have to start doing things in an organized way. For eg., sewing and embroidery is one skill almost all Pakistani Hindu girls and women have, because it can be learnt at home and parents fear sending their daughters out for other training. So families who are arriving from Pakistan can be given sewing machines, or training camps can be opened to enhance their sewing skills. We can consider a model in which they are given machines and told to pay off the cost in monthly installments.

We also encourage people to put up thelas (roadside carts) and provide them capital to procure goods – no work should be considered small, and many of these small trades can be quite profitable. So unless we help refugees to settle down in an organized manner, many will be forced to return to Pakistan and eventually left with no choice but to convert to Islam to survive.

What percentage of Hindu refugees do you think return to Pakistan?

S1: Around 30-40%

S2: I agree. I have seen many Pakistani Hindus who had arrived in this city, return to Pakistan.

S1: I want to add one thing, about the demand for Sindhudesh (a proposed independent state for the people of Sindh, Pakistan). It is mostly Sindhi Muslims who are kidnapping Hindu girls in Sindh, so then what is the meaning of the ‘Jeay Sindh’ (long live Sindh) slogan for us? Sindhi Muslims who truly consider Hindus as their equals and care about our rights, are a small minority. The Sindhudesh movement is focused on the crimes of the Pakistani state, and mostly ignores the atrocities on Sindhi Hindus.

Thank you for talking to us.

(Note: While the current central government has done a lot for persecuted Hindu refugees, a lot more needs to be done at level of both govt and society. Our foreign ministry and government spokespersons also need to raise the ongoing slow genocide of Hindus in Pakistan with more clarity. One just has to look at how the state of Mizoram has welcomed Christian Chin-Kuki refugees from Myanmar to see how far we Hindus have to go, especially when we hear of bureaucratic cruelty towards Hindu refugees by ‘rockstar’ IAS officers like Tina Dabi)